thugs and metal

[Anduin]

I think it's fine that a cleric/thug can still wear some sorts of metal, that's fine, what I don't agree with is mages, rangers, and shaman being able to. I thought that was the whole point of equalizing the classes (actually metal wearers not being able to go above 40 without OM was but I won't get into that). A ranger is a fighting class with its own advantages (ie. 2 weapons, high dex), why should they get to wear metal armor like a warrior does? Why should a mage or shaman? That was supposed to be the whole downside of those classes. I really think this should be changed, I know originally it was a bug but now it seems like it's been "accepted" and I dis-agree with that.

[Anonymous Mammal]

I agree. The standard has always been that if one of your classes is not allowed to wear metal then that was it; you can't wear metal. There shouldn't be a special provision because of a thug class that allows non-metal-wearing classes to wear metal.

[pitt]

I tend agree that a thug class shouldn't let shamans/mages/rangers wear metal.

I do think, however, that shields would make sense.. maybe if nothing else, the bucklers that nobody else ever uses? Maybe even metal ones, if you wanted to compromise ;)

[Belsambar]

I don't really care, because it's not like you get a GREAT Ac boost from thug metals. Just makes it easier to eq, big deal. Some people need the help. You get, what, AC8 metals tops. You can't wear 9's. You can find 11's and 12's, but those are leather anyway. Otherwise, spend some time doing some really heavy hunting on types like heavy cloth and studded leather, and you'll easily be at solid AC6-8 ((yes, they DO pop to 8, it's just rare.)) And thus, really not that far at all behind a thug. I don't think of it as a benefit, I think of it as a balancer, since thug is lacking in skills. They're bluffing how tough they are by wearing metals unlike those 'silly leather wearers'. I remember thug was supposedly 'created for warrics', but honestly, from my perspective, thief/warrior go together much better than thief/ranger...the way the classes strengthen each other's skills is just highly effective.
As it is for thugs. They can't wear shields, but what ranger wants to? The skills overlap a lot less, and I see some nice synergies there for how the classes are boosting each other...like thug has ended up having a purpose in rangers.

In other words, I think it's great the way it is. I just want to see more skills....((and maybe more classes...))

[Arella]

I think that was the origional plan to only let cleric/thug or warrior/thug wear metal. It was a bug that allowed the mage/shaman/rangers to wear metal. The bug post and Tynian's reply are still posted. I got the impression that he was allowing it until thugs were more finished. Without the little metal bonus thugs don't offer much at all.

[Tynian]

It was indeed a goof, originally. Annotation from the bug report on it:


=>Tynian, Sat Oct 22 05 13:29:10: It wasn't intended. I'm taking a "wait and see" stance with it. In the meantime, you may wear non-plate metal.
=>Tynian, Sat Oct 22 05 13:36:26: This implies, however, that it may change in the future. USE METAL AT YOUR OWN RISK.


I agree that there is nothing inherent to thugs that would allow non-metal classes to wear metal.

I admit that I've not been anxious to change it, anticipating that a lot of people have been enjoying the benefits of this relatively beneign bug. But I suppose that shouldn't stop me from just making the change. ;) I did say "use metal at your own risk," after all.

[morgaine]

Thug training is brutal... there's aerobics, there's weight lifting, body building, there's bully technique sessions! you don't pay jack 25,000 gold for nothing!
During this process of physical and emotional hardening the Thug transforms into an individual of great structure, and is now capable of carrying the extra weight of metal equiptment on his back.... this does of course slow him down, in comparison to the thief... I believe Thugs should also be allowed to use two handed weapons, though a thug hiding behind a shield would be considered cowardly amongst his rank.... further i believe thugs should get group combat bonuses similar to the ones a blue OM recieves when battling groups of evil mobs.

-Morgaine

[Pol]

I tend to think that it's not such a bad thing at this point. Thug, as a class, still has some filling out to do in terms of skills and abilities (or at least, it sure seems like it does).

As it stands, besides being a 3rd class option for Ogres and Giants for eff levels, there's not a whole lot of benefit to playing a Thug at this point beyond the ability to wear metal as a Mage or Shaman.

If the class becomes more pwerful later, with more abilities, skills, etc, then it should be revisited. For now, though, I'd say keep it as it.

Pol O'Song