Another previously posted Idea on TFC

[Belsambar]

I heard some say they thought this had merit. Maybe some tweaking would be needed, but I wanted to see current response, since we're all discussin ideas better than we could before :)


[ 11] Belsambar: Something for 50's to do...
Mon May 22 19:51:34 2006
To: all
Another 'hard coded quest'. Give the 50's the option of a scavenger
hunt idea, for points. Choices of low, moderate, or high difficulty
quests. Could just be a mobm-style (Kill Kerberos for 5 points - high)
or an item retrieval (<mobname> has a <item>. Return the item to Quest
mob for points.)

For point split up, I'd say 1 point for low, 3 for moderate, and 5
for high difficulty.

Now, you'll need something to DO with those points right? Well, here is
where it might seem crazy.

Possible price list:
+5mana to eq item 20,000 points +5hp to eq item 20,000 points
+5move to eq item 20,000 points +1str/dex/int/etc to eq item, 50,000
+1dmg/hr/mr 75,000 points -1svs to eq item 75,000 points
Restring item, 10,000 points. +1AC to eq item, 75,000 points

That's just a possible list of prices, actual prices would be determined
by Tynian and his staff of course...but I tried to balance it as is
to keep the idea of 'Well, now Orpik could just collect points and
Become all-powerful' since at most he could go for 5 point quests,
and he'd have to get thousands just to add +1dmg. I doubt it'd be
too overpowering, and those who had really awesome awesome items
from MAKING them would have to put in a LOT of work and dedication.

And as a penalty for failure to complete a quest, you'd lose points
(no point loss for low level quests, 2 point loss for medium, and
3 point loss for high level quests failed) So that people don't 'cycle'
through quests just to get something they consider 'easy'.

Another addition, you might want it to cost gold in order to even DO
the quest. Or xp. Or something :)

Just another Suicidal Idea....
-=Suicide Mage=-
((Names, etc, etc, are only used for example))

[Avarice]

I'm all for this idea, giving us bored level 49 OM's somethin to do that guarantees improvement of eq is kinda great. Of course there's probably some way to abuse the system as laid out by Bels but I'd personally love to see a way to improve a 2/2 into a 3/3 or whatever. The one thing I'd change is the points system bels laid out...I'd add a way to wager points on quests prior to seeing what mob/item/location/whatever you get....so once u get 10 points you can do a quest a wager all 10 points and if you fail you lose them. It would definitely spice things up when Orp logs in and yer wagering all your points on a quest....


Anyhow nice idea! It reminds me of another realms' module that is extremely popular...

[Grale]

I like this idea too!

[pitt]

and you could add trains to the prize list maybe? ;)

[Anathema]

and you could add trains to the prize list maybe? ;)

Three things:

1) Avarice you arent level 50, so I dont think this was applying to you.

2) I like the idea, but is it fair to everyone else to limit these things to level 50(s), thereby making the most powerful even stronger? Why not open it up, but make the quests sufficiently hard that you have to be pretty buff to get them done...

3) Off-topic, but Pitt made me think of it. Can we have some way of using extra trains?

Shuger

[Anduin]

items are too powerful as it is, we don't need something like this to make them more ridiculous

[pitt]

Can we have some way of using extra trains?
EXTRA trains? I hate you! ::roll::

I don't see any reason to deny this to not-max-level people, but you could reward them with xp instead.

Guildmasters could start the quests, different things for each class, and generate special mobs/items for targets. I have more specific ideas along these lines if anyone is interested...

[Arella]

Firstly I agree with Anathama, there is no reason that a new quest should be implemented and restricted to eff 50s, though I'm not too sure that was the original idea.

I really like the idea of giving those who don't need xp something new to do, but most wouldn't do it. Consider how many do mh, lq, or mm now; people will do mm while leveling for quick xp, hardly anyone touches lq other than following related quest or Schwartz tie breaker, mh...eh, some do it.
I'm not sure if your idea would be hard to implement or not, it sounds like a tweak to the pummel stick code but including complete randomness in it might be hard.

And there would have to be complete randomness.

the idea of 'Well, now Orpik could just collect points and
Become all-powerful' since at most he could go for 5 point quests,
and he'd have to get thousands just to add +1dmg. I doubt it'd be
too overpowering, and those who had really awesome awesome items
from MAKING them would have to put in a LOT of work and dedication.

If the quest were to cycle through certain mobs for each level, or certain items it would get super easy. At the risk of sounding completely arrogant...I can do about 10 lq (~150 points) in a matter of just a few minutes, probably less than 5 minutes while only resigning 2-3. Lets apply that to your idea...10 high level quests, 50 points, fail 3, -9 points = 41 points in less than five minutes (nearly 500 an hour). Granted it would take a little bit to get that quick at it, but it can and will be done. It would not take long at all to get 50k points. However, if you made it completely random it wouldn't really be fair. Say Orpik got a 'hard' quest that was get an random ring from a termite, where as Belsambar got a 'hard' quest that was get a random ring from the copper dragon. There is no way to adjust the difficulty without giving it a set of mobs/items it could use.
Maybe I'm just not thinking of all the options, but I can't see any way to make it fair and not abusable.

Though personally, I'd do the little quests just for the kicks and giggles.

[Anathema]

EXTRA trains? I hate you! ::roll::

I don't see any reason to deny this to not-max-level people, but you could reward them with xp instead.

Guildmasters could start the quests, different things for each class, and generate special mobs/items for targets. I have more specific ideas along these lines if anyone is interested...

Talk to Tynian. My 4 extra trains are for sale;)

[Belsambar]

Anathema: It's not JUST for 50's, in fact, I don't believe it says anywhere in the idea anything about a level restriction....just that it's far more likely to be done by 50's, than by those who still have xping they can do.

Anduin: Again, I believe the point base system prevents people from making 'awesome eq'. If you're THAT bored, and capable, and knowledgable, that you can rack up 75k points at 5 points a pop, 6 times, and add 6dmg to an item, be my guest. I don't think it'd be anywhere NEAR as easy as Arella seems to think.

Arella: Ok, fine, so you can do them quick....so we could possibly add an amount of ticks to failures or resignations, like momaster. You fail/resign, you have to wait 200 ticks to do a new one. So you racked up 50 inside short order....all you have to fail is one.

And yes, I was thinking that mobs would have to be figured into difficulty. The whole point is that you WOULDN'T get Copper Dragon for 'easy' or a termite for 'hard'. I really don't think that concept should have even entered discussion, but I guess it wasn't common sense after all.

And if it makes anyone feel etter about 'OMG, look how perful you could make eq' AND you SERIOUSLY think it'd be that easy ((I highly doubt people would rack the points even as fast as they can LQ's)), the points required to buy could be bumbped up. maybe multiply times 10. So, now you need 750k points to add 1dmg/etc/etc.

People 'getting poins to fast' is pretty easy to balance out imho :P

[Anathema]

[ 11] Belsambar: Something for 50's to do...
Mon May 22 19:51:34 2006
To: all
Another 'hard coded quest'. Give the 50's the option of a scavenger
hunt idea, for points. Choices of low, moderate, or high difficulty
quests. Could just be a mobm-style (Kill Kerberos for 5 points - high)
or an item retrieval (<mobname> has a <item>. Return the item to Quest
mob for points.)

Perhaps you didnt mean it that way, but that is the way I read it and other people have as well.

[Belsambar]

Fine then, it's out in the open that it's not just meant for 50's now :P

[jaeden]

I like the idea in general, but there would have to be a way to regulate it. a way so people couldn't abuse it by giving items made ridiculously powerful to someone of very low level. It might be more coding than it's worth.

[Belsambar]

I still fail to see how you could make an item all that much more powerful than anything already out there, aside from spending a DAMN lot of time to collect points and make something like a 7 dmg item ((in my estimation, it'd still take less time to buy a simple from mage mob gold....)). Even still, so they give it to a lower level char? People do that anyway. Not as often these days, especially since dmg has no real affect for a newbie killer since they need to aggro 95% of the time to get the kill...now there's the classic 'attack/flee, wait for them to chase you in retribution...' but even still, if you're going to give an item to a lower level of extreme power, you're just as likely to give that item to that person if you randomed it, made it, or killed someone for it.

Though, by all means, keep presenting ideas for abuse, because I'd love to find ways to tweak this idea so it is not easily abusable :>

[Tynian]

I like the idea of giving especially maxxed level characters something to do. I'm not crazy about bumping item stats, though I do see that it would take lots of points to bump an item, which is good.

[JonnyBravo]

For point split up, I'd say 1 point for low, 3 for moderate, and 5
for high difficulty.

Now, you'll need something to DO with those points right? Well, here is
where it might seem crazy.

Possible price list:
+5mana to eq item 20,000 points +5hp to eq item 20,000 points
+5move to eq item 20,000 points +1str/dex/int/etc to eq item, 50,000
+1dmg/hr/mr 75,000 points -1svs to eq item 75,000 points
Restring item, 10,000 points. +1AC to eq item, 75,000 points

Two things here.

One, let's pretend a "high difficulty" quest takes 15 minutes to complete. I'm sure that's optimistic.
5points = 15mins.
75,000 points = 225,000 mins
225,000 mins = 3,750 hrs
So someone is going to spend 3-4 thousand hours to put +1dam on their item? Please. Okay maybe Orpik would.

Two, restrings really should be much more common in the game. It lets a character identify themselves better, and adds more of a RP environment to the mud (assuming the restrings were restricted to RP-based type of names, like "Belsambar's Sword of Might", and not "A Can of Whoopass") without giving any added advantages in PK or Lvling.


I like the idea of giving especially maxxed level characters something to do. I'm not crazy about bumping item stats, though I do see that it would take lots of points to bump an item, which is good.

Comments like these help me to understand why the playerbase just keeps getting smaller

[Anonymous Mammal]

Comments like these help me to understand why the playerbase just keeps getting smallerWhat kind of comment were you hoping to get?

It's not just comments that drive the playerbase smaller and smaller, there are other contributing factors.

[JonnyBravo]

What kind of comment were you hoping to get?

It's not just comments that drive the playerbase smaller and smaller, there are other contributing factors.

It isn't the comment as much as the attitude behind the comment that I was getting at.

As to the playerbase getting smaller and smaller, you are certainly correct. This isn't unique to TFC, and probably factors such as aging of players and the lack of ability to capture new & younger ones is the biggest factor in the shrinking playerbases of muds in general. MMORPG's are all the rage nowadays. However I play two other muds occasionally (and have over the years) that have playerbases nowhere near as shrunken as TFC. One had a pbase equivalent to TFC in its glory days, the other about 2x the size of TFC. Both have gone down by about half (100 to 50pl avg & 60 to 30pl avg)

TFC has gone from 60pl to 10pl avg. Big difference. Why? My only answer to that gets back to my initial comment. But I could be wrong.

[Schwartz]

It isn't the comment as much as the attitude behind the comment that I was getting at.

I don't normally chime in on things like this, but I have to admit, I was pretty struck by the irony of what you said, and how you conveyed it.

Managing the economy of the mud isn't nearly as easy as it seems. Remember back in 2.x days, when you'd look forever to find a +1 item? Even as recently as a couple years ago, 2dam sets were normal and 3dam was unusual. Tynian adjusted random item power, +3 items became more common, and now we're at a point where you can sometimes even find 3dam stuff in the pit.

Haphazardly making big items bigger only exacerbates the problem, so it has to be done with care, and it shouldn't be something one can accomplish in two days. A challenging quest should be challenging.


schwartz

[Arella]

Actually I think a challenging quest would help more than hurt. Give people something to do besides sit in guild or xp. Maybe I've not payed too much attention but it seems that big quests especially following based ones seems to attract people.

[Belsambar]

Good quests always attract players. Since nobody has time to run them, that's why I was suggesting the whole thing to wander around and do as a constant quest :P