the new int/wis bonuses - a complaint!

[Cordir, Lady of Fate]

I would like to formally lodge a protest about a side effect of the new int/wis changes, which is a serious issue - perhaps unforseen - that must be addressed immediately. (Bliss, wherever she may be, would surely agree with me, were she to know the details.)

When a mortal wears max int and wis...

Immortal rift is affected. Drastically. I rifted Belsambar TWICE and he STILL WASN"T DEAD!

Completely unacceptable! How are we to lead if not by dread fear of the mighty soul rift?! :mad:

How are we to be complete, without the ability to splatter impudent mortals with a single uttered spell?

What are we to do?!

I demand immediate action!! This must be fixed!

Irately,

Cordir, Lady of Fate
:mad:








Well, other than Death, of course.

***DISCLAIMER*** THE PREVIOUS WAS SAID TONGUE IN CHEEK.
TEASING. JOKING. NOT SERIOUS. NO ACTION WHATSOEVER IS EXPECTED.

[pitt]

maybe immortals should get the buggy rift code ;)

[Katrana]

maybe immortals should get the buggy rift code ;)

If that was true...I wonder if Tyn would give me the power to rift someone just once....for old times sake...lol :>

[Solaron]

If that was true...I wonder if Tyn would give me the power to rift someone just once....for old times sake...lol :>

Please no! I know who it would be!

[Tynian]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Navy"]I rifted Belsambar TWICE and he STILL WASN"T DEAD!

Yeah, it's a bug. Belsambar should always default to "dead."



And yes, that, too, was a joke. ;)

[Seto]

The Balance between classes has changes big time.

An evil cleric at max level with max int/wis can cast harm at an equal, if not stronger rate than a single shamans rift at max level. A level 8 clerics magic stone can DISEM. and a level 8 shamans rift can devistate. Mages can lightning bolt can ANNI ... and so on.

Right now, the only thing that really gives shamans an edge against the other classes is absorb and cloak, and even then, they dont seem to do much. ::down::

<157hp(292) 379ma(409) 225mv(225) 182683xp(17341) 392gp >
c rift az

Azuroth utters the words, 'pabraw'.
Azuroth's harm spell *** ANNIHILATES *** you!
You are stunned, but will probably recover.

<0hp(292) 379ma(409) 225mv(225) 182683xp(17341) 392gp > You are too stunned to do that.

<0hp(292) 379ma(409) 225mv(225) 182683xp(17341) 392gp >
You have been KILLED!!

Thats what harm can do as a level 30 cleric tripled

This is what a level 15cleric 13 warrior can do with a spiritual hammer

<232hp(292) 163ma(409) 197mv(225) 185655xp(14369) 908gp >
Krysta utters the words, 'gsufuhjar pawwzf'.
Krysta's spiritual hammer *** DEMOLISHES *** you.
That really did HURT!

<147hp(292) 163ma(409) 197mv(225) 185655xp(14369) 908gp >

Flame strike also DEMOs and so on

see what i mean?

[Pol]

To make a fair comparison, take into account your own comparitive levels and WIS/SVS as well as the opponent's WIS/INT.

I've always thought of it as rock/paper/scissors...Mage beats Cleric, Cleric beats Shaman, Shaman beats Mage. Up against a L30 cleric, a L18 Shaman *should* get their clock cleaned. Heck, a L18 *anything* against a L30 caster should get smashed.

When you and I sparred, you banged me up pretty good with rift just doing steady MUTI's. This is against a Mage 10 caster levels, and 20 eff levels higher than you with decent svs, and maxed out WIS. I did the best against you with Fireball, since I couldn't get Bolt to punch through your absorb before I'd taken 150hp of damage or so.

Bolt will anni at high levels against lower-level mobs/pc's, yes. A L30 mage with maxxed out WIS and INT will throw demo's with bolt fairly consistently with the rare anni. Compared to rift which anni's regularly at higher levels, it's competitive, but it no way superior. By the same token, demo is as good as hammer gets, I believe. So, while it hits hard at lower levels, it doesn't grow as much as rift. Also take into account that flamestrike costs 20ma per cast compared to 15ma for most other offensive spells. With the extra mana cost, there should be some benefit in using it.

I think the spells as they are now are fairly well balanced (at least they seem to be to me). Once Seto reaches L20+, I think you'll see a noticeable difference in his spell damage (in addition to being able to naturalize a silenced room :p ) and might have a different opinion.

Cheers,

Pol O'Song

[Seto]

I wasnt comparing myself as a level 18shaman, I was comparing Max level classes to Max level classes.

Mainly bringing up the issue of, "Why would i chose a shaman when i can do nearly the same damage with harm AND get metal, heal, sanc, protection good/evil cure/everything.

People pick the shaman BECAUSE it has the ledgendary ANNI spell at level 30.
That is the shamans edge.
Kinda seems pointless now that other classes have that same "edge" and a bag of potato chips

[Solaron]

Harm is an expensive spell.

[Pol]

Sol makes a great point - harm is a 50ma spell. That's *very* expensive.

Cheers,

Pol O'Song

[Anathema]

Sol makes a great point - harm is a 50ma spell. That's *very* expensive.

Cheers,

Pol O'Song

I bugged this the other day so I wont comment too much on the 150+ harm spell.

Yes, Harm costs 50 mana, but in the context of a PK that is not that much. With INT raising max mana most level 30(s) have clear over 400 mana. You dont need many 150 Annhilates to kill someone, even at a cost of 50 mana... do the math on that one.

I have always thought dispel evil/good was way too powerful a spell when compared to rift, but now it looks like other classes are right in the ballpark. When the changes were first made (no not that stupid one kill rift) rift hit pretty darn hard. However, since there have been tweaks my rift does not consistently hit for Annhilate to the extent I recall my past level 30 shamans hitting. In fact, when sparring Azuroth he did far more spell damage than I was able to do. Listen, I have no problem giving other clases more juice to their attack spells, but then lets give shamans a little more on defense or tweak some existing spells.

Finally, with respect to Cordir's point- I know there is something wonderful about rifting mortals, but you have so much more in your bag of tricks! I think you should just rely on the death spell, cleaner!

-Shuger

[Seto]

I've always thought of it as rock/paper/scissors...Mage beats Cleric, Cleric beats Shaman, Shaman beats Mage.

Well now it seems, Cleric beats Shaman, Cleric beats Mage, and Evil Cleric beats nonEvil Cleric.

[Katrana]

Well now it seems, Cleric beats Shaman, Cleric beats Mage, and Evil Cleric beats nonEvil Cleric.

Pol's right so long as levels are equal and you are on the same skill level as the other player. (And gear level, ie, Orpik vs any 50 lvl triple mage...just not fair due to gear, and potion amount.)

Shamans have absorb to mage blows, and can nat their silence. Mages have silence and can dispel clerics, clerics have sanc and can bash shamans.

The only exception I could see would be the same level mage vs any class do long as the mage can memo and has memo'ed well. Mages can then natty quiet, absorb themselves, rift others, and do just about anything they pretty much please to do.

[Tynian]

I appreciate the feedback. Please keep in mind that I'm not looking at class balance right now. I understand your concerns, and I think some classes could use more help than others. Yet right now, I'm focusing on more global changes. From my perspective, it makes sense to complete them first, so that I'm not trying to re-adjust classes every time I make a global change.

That works so long as things don't get too far off.

In terms of spell power, I have also noticed that other classes' spells are doing some pretty serious damage, rivaling rift. If that remains the case, I will probably either set rift up like the other spells (that concentrate on WIS), or make all spells more dependent on both WIS and INT. In other words, I made rift dependent on both INT and WIS because it was the most powerful damage spell in the game. As that becomes less the case, I'm less inclined to single it out.

[Anathema]

I appreciate the feedback. Please keep in mind that I'm not looking at class balance right now. I understand your concerns, and I think some classes could use more help than others. Yet right now, I'm focusing on more global changes. From my perspective, it makes sense to complete them first, so that I'm not trying to re-adjust classes every time I make a global change.

That works so long as things don't get too far off.

In terms of spell power, I have also noticed that other classes' spells are doing some pretty serious damage, rivaling rift. If that remains the case, I will probably either set rift up like the other spells (that concentrate on WIS), or make all spells more dependent on both WIS and INT. In other words, I made rift dependent on both INT and WIS because it was the most powerful damage spell in the game. As that becomes less the case, I'm less inclined to single it out.

Will that solve the problem? If you make int more important for everyone, or make it less important for shamans will that do anything with respect to relative power? I dont really understand these things, but isnt it easier to simply alter the caps or is that not as simple as I would think?

Alternatively, are you saying that you are less inclined to mess with spell power, therefore leaving these other spells in the same damage ranger as rift? I would just like to understand what direction you are heading.

Thanks

[Tynian]

Just forget I said anything.

My message was that I was working on global change. And then I brought up a "down the road" thing that I'm not ready to give any thought to.

So, my apologies.

[Anathema]

Just forget I said anything.

My message was that I was working on global change. And then I brought up a "down the road" thing that I'm not ready to give any thought to.

So, my apologies.

ok -got it

[Belsambar]

Yeah, it's a bug. Belsambar should always default to "dead."



And yes, that, too, was a joke. ;)

Heyyy....what's wrong with me being a living mage for a couple days in a row? Sheesh! ::woot::

[Belsambar]

Mainly bringing up the issue of, "Why would i chose a shaman when i can do nearly the same damage with harm AND get metal, heal, sanc, protection good/evil cure/everything.

People pick the shaman BECAUSE it has the ledgendary ANNI spell at level 30.
That is the shamans edge.
Kinda seems pointless now that other classes have that same "edge" and a bag of potato chips

You have other nifty spells too. It's a shame in my opinion, that the class is known for only one thing when they can be so damn versatile....

[Belsambar]

One last thing I forgot....yeah, Immortal rift needs to be jacked up higher....otherwise I get locked in rooms instead of just rifted :P