Idea

[jaerith]

1: get rid of the "god" gear that's floating around and lower the drop rate on dmg

2: see if it's possible to have an affect that very slightly increases one's spell dmg, so that Magic Resist gear becomes a little more useful(like DMG Vs. DA)

3: Install new areas at a slightly faster pace(I'm familiar with writing them, and I know that with a good idea, one can be completed almost overnight..it's the beta testing that's the real challenge) If they get bad reviews..remove them and chose another. Keep new things to explore funnelling into TFC.

Automize battle-royale type fights similar to the current spar system, where followings can compete against each other in a Mock-war situation. (possibly a whole zone that's only accessible when two gods "approve" of a battle)


Just a few thoughts..I'm not entirely familiar with Merc or Diku..I've only ever really made zones for Circle (which is infinitely easier)..though I'd be willing to put some time into Sirak's Muditor if I thought it might be worthwhile.

[Tynian]

1: get rid of the "god" gear that's floating around and lower the drop rate on dmg

What does "lower the drop rate on dmg" mean? How would you suggest getting rid of the "god" gear? What gear are you concerned about?

3: Install new areas at a slightly faster pace(I'm familiar with writing them, and I know that with a good idea, one can be completed almost overnight..it's the beta testing that's the real challenge)

It has not been my experience that areas get written quickly. Very few that commit to an area complete one. Also, enthusiasm around the last area to go in wasn't exactly compelling.

[Solaron]

It has not been my experience that areas get written quickly. Very few that commit to an area complete one. Also, enthusiasm around the last area to go in wasn't exactly compelling.

TFC has more stringent requirements than many muds; no two rooms can have the same description, mobprogs must be approved by God+ staff, etc. They've also got quite a lengthy review process.

The lack of enthusiasm would be, I would say, due to the fact that the area is for lower level characters with gear that doesn't equal gear found commonly throughout the realm. It's a well-written zone, but nothing the high levels can get excited about exploring. I'd assume it's use as an xp zone will increase as people realize its potential, but that's the extent of its usefulness in purely OOC terms.

What does "lower the drop rate on dmg" mean? How would you suggest getting rid of the "god" gear? What gear are you concerned about?

He probably means (I'm assuming here) that you'd tweak the random code so that dmg doesn't pop as much, and when it does, it's not so many 3dmgs. God gear? My old 5dmg 5str onbody, teh sheer numbers of 5dmgs floating around these days, limiteds that keep increasing in points with every new area (compare limiteds from older zones to things like the Nydia ammys, Candlespyre, Kat's and my zone, etc.)

All in all, these aren't bad ideas. I agree with them - I also think that D/A cap should be changed to compete with the damage cap. Either way, I won't jack this thread with my ideas, heh. Just hoped to clarify some stuff.

[Tynian]

TFC has more stringent requirements than many muds; no two rooms can have the same description, mobprogs must be approved by God+ staff, etc. They've also got quite a lengthy review process.

All true. Well, okay, I'm assuming you're right on the no two rooms can have the same description thing -- that's before my time. ::pleased:: My feeling is that many areas don't make it past the "thinking about it" stage. Of those that are completed, I agree, it would be better if we could get these installed more quickly.

[Jashon]

I think one of the defining features of TFC is that it constantly changing. It does, in fact, change so much that you can stop playing for 2 years and come back and the game is (while very similar) a completely new game. In which the strategies and standards have changed.

While I sometimes think things would be better for the game if they were changed back to how they used to be, back in the day; I do not think that will change the game how we would want. It will not bring back the 50 people that were playing a night--they are gone and TFC has moved on without them. A good deal of them gone due to the changes that have come about--some of which are some of the greatest aspects of the TFC we now know.

If we (not like I would actually be doing any of this admittedly) the "god eq" (much of which i think it would be beneficial for the game to loose) and reduce the amount of dmg in the game, I believe that we (as in the great Immortals in charge of making the changes) would also need to reduce the damage spike and the overall toughness of mobs and also then get rid of all Health amulets--for without the nasty mobs and their damage spikes it would be alltogether to easy to just plough through hundreds of mobs without ever having to regen at all.

Then along these same lines, I believe we would also have to get rid of Adamantite and Mithril, especially since they often pop with some nice affects--and then also elven chain and dragonscale. These wonderful AC items make exping much more pleasant now--and would make it exponentially easier with the aforementioned changes. (i seriously doubt it would actually be exponentially, but it illustrates a point)


As for area writing.

Area Writing for TFC is harder than for many other MUDs--as Solaron stated. But it is not easy to whip out a "good" area almost overnight. What is it that makes an area "good". Is it simply a ton of mobs to kill? Or is it an area with beautiful descriptions? Or how about an area with tricks and puzzle that have to be solved to find things in the area? Also one cannot forget the areas loaded with pretty limiteds. I do not believe that simply one of these things defines a good area. They all do. While it may be easy enough to pound out an area with a bazillion mobs and decent enough descriptions (for those of us who don't turn them off)--it is not as easy to make the clever things, the things that make a good area great. Perhaps it is due to my writing style, which very likely annoys some of you and is hard to follow, but I find area writing for TFC to be a little difficult and quite time-consuming. And I do believe that is another of the things that makes TFC so different from other muds--and in my opinion so far superior. While time poured into an area does not make it great (if only it were so, for then I'd be working on one of the greatest areas ever) it does add a feel to it. And I believe this feel is one that the powers that be of TFC are looking for.

In short, (while if you've read this entire thing it is nowhere near) tweak some things around, make the "god gear" go bye bye, but don't drasctically reduce the good eq in the game, because then other things will have to be adjusted to compensate. There is not one character that is dominant in the game. There are perhaps several--and aint it a good thing they are not all buddy-buddy.

I like where TFC is-- like where Tynian has been leading us, and I want to see this evolution continue. (Dare I say this--yes I do) Even if that entails a Pwipe or an EQwipe. (Oof I said it and I think it might open a can of worms I was trying to avoid)

[Solaron]

As far as the areas go:

Install time could be drastically improved. That's fairly easy to address. The next would probably be some of the requirements/review process. Will a few more issues/typos slip through the cracks and make it to the live mud? Sure. People will deal with them, just like they deal with current ones. Some restrictions (the one I currently love to hate is the "no two rooms the same" one) actually can go against what a person wants to convey with their zones, or sometimes, as is the case with certain parts of zones, who wants to spend extra HOURS just to try and think of different things to include in rooms that are, for all intents and purposes, the same? (IE a large banquet hall or something similar, an underground tunnel, who knows?)

While "good" areas can't be pumped out overnight, we could definitely have quite a few more areas to go in. This would, of course, fit in well with my next idea, which I'll post when I've got more time.

As far as gear.... I think mithril should stay. Metal wearers should be able to reach insanely high AC. However, nice affects from mithril should be incredibly rare. Let's have someone with an uber-AC and low damroll be IMPORTANT to surviving in exploration of new zones or popping gear. Let's remove all of the ac11 or 12 LEATHER gear and not try and create a platform where everyone is "equal". Remove healths? Hell yes. Drop dmg drop rate? Yep. Fix the uber-limiteds? Yep. EQ wipe? Yep. Pwipe? Not necessarily.

My 10 cents.

[jaerith]

3: Install new areas at a slightly faster pace(I'm familiar with writing them, and I know that with a good idea, one can be completed almost overnight..it's the beta testing that's the real challenge) If they get bad reviews..remove them and chose another. Keep new things to explore funnelling into TFC.

Ok, perhaps I should've said that *I* could write a decent area almost overnight with a good idea. doesn't mean it'll be the greatest area ever written, doesn't mean a few rooms here and there won't repeat, but it will be a playable rough draft at the very least.

[Tynian]

If we (not like I would actually be doing any of this admittedly) the "god eq" (much of which i think it would be beneficial for the game to loose) and reduce the amount of dmg in the game, I believe that we (as in the great Immortals in charge of making the changes) would also need to reduce the damage spike and the overall toughness of mobs and also then get rid of all Health amulets--for without the nasty mobs and their damage spikes it would be alltogether to easy to just plough through hundreds of mobs without ever having to regen at all.

Yes, let's assume that if we make major adjustments to damage, a series of adjustments would have to take place, especially in regards to PC vs PC and PC vs mob combat. The reason mobs got tougher was because of the damage increases over time.

In short, (while if you've read this entire thing it is nowhere near) tweak some things around, make the "god gear" go bye bye, but don't drasctically reduce the good eq in the game, because then other things will have to be adjusted to compensate.

[...]

Even if that entails a Pwipe or an EQwipe. (Oof I said it and I think it might open a can of worms I was trying to avoid)

I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting.

[Tynian]

who wants to spend extra HOURS just to try and think of different things to include in rooms that are, for all intents and purposes, the same? (IE a large banquet hall or something similar, an underground tunnel, who knows?)

I tend to agree, though admitedly, I'm the one who wrote such classics as "Great Western Road," "The North," and "The West," all of which have duplicate rooms. I'd hope there is a middle ground between no duplicate rooms and every darned room looking the same, however.

Remove healths? Hell yes. Drop dmg drop rate? Yep. Fix the uber-limiteds? Yep. EQ wipe? Yep. Pwipe? Not necessarily.

What do you mean by dmg drop rate?

[Solaron]

Sorry, using MMRPG terms, heh. Decrease the frequency with which random damage items are dropping. Perhaps not back to 2.x standards, but definitely back a bit. Try and make up for some of the eq inflation that's currently affecting us. Keeping an eye on that would mean the changes to combat and beefing up mobs to keep up with mortals wouldn't need to happen again, either, hopefully.

[Tynian]

Sorry, using MMRPG terms, heh. Decrease the frequency with which random damage items are dropping. Perhaps not back to 2.x standards, but definitely back a bit. Try and make up for some of the eq inflation that's currently affecting us. Keeping an eye on that would mean the changes to combat and beefing up mobs to keep up with mortals wouldn't need to happen again, either, hopefully.

It won't work without an equipment wipe.

I've scaled back in the past, in hopes that attrition will do the job. And things got much worse for most people, while well established players (and their friends) and friends of Immortals continue on with yesteryear's equipment.

From my perspective, things overall are better for most people, in terms of equipment, than they were when I cut back on the higher powered equipment.

[Solaron]

Things are better overall, definitely... to the point where almost anyone with connections can die and have another full 3dmg set thrown on in an hour or two, or random one in not-too-long.

Many people oppose a pwipe, but you'd probably find a bit more support on an eq wipe. I know I would support it, as would many of my followers.

[Tokugawa]

3: Install new areas at a slightly faster pace (I'm familiar with writing them, and I know that with a good idea, one can be completed almost overnight..

Wow. If you can do one overnight we have an area or two that needs finishing.


it's the beta testing that's the real challenge) If they get bad reviews..remove them and chose another.

I will not have the author, myself and Tamar to do all this work to then have the players say, "This area sucks" then we remove it. This is not a democracy or popularity game. :)

That's what proposals are for. In keeping with the TFC theme and hoping the players like the area we do the best we can. Sure, some areas players have liked, others not. But Tamar and I work with who wants to do an area. If we think the area idea has merit during the proposal process it is greenlighted. We hope for the best and hope players like the area but we have to balance itemization and also keep the TFC feel to the area.

[Tokugawa]

TFC has more stringent requirements than many muds; no two rooms can have the same description, mobprogs must be approved by God+ staff, etc. They've also got quite a lengthy review process.


I'll have to take your word on the "stringent requirement" statement. As I have not played on many others muds besides TFC. But I think what is required is what helps TFC, be TFC. We want unique zones that are written well and make sense.

In regards to the mob programs. They have to be approved by God+ due to the reason they have to be hand coded. If I could code them myself I would. I do not code however so we have to have someone else do it. So the process is, you propose something, if the mob program makes sense we ask if someone can code it, if somone can, we can approve it.


The lack of enthusiasm would be, I would say, due to the fact that the area is for lower level characters with gear that doesn't equal gear found commonly throughout the realm. It's a well-written zone, but nothing the high levels can get excited about exploring. I'd assume it's use as an xp zone will increase as people realize its potential, but that's the extent of its usefulness in purely OOC terms.


I agree with this. On the flip side though, where do you draw the line when putting in limiteds? I looks like to me those with the gear and the experience will get the limiteds and then hoard them. Thus this continues the cycle that those who have nice gear, will continue to get better and better while those that do not fall further behind. So the limiteds that we allow in are not all that great. I'm not really sure what the answer is here. Maybe we could have a guideline as to what is ok to put in limited wise base on the the zone level.

[Tokugawa]

As far as the areas go:
Install time could be drastically improved. That's fairly easy to address.


How? Tamar and I do not have the same degree of time that it takes to do this. Things DO progress. The real problem is that people want to do an area and then we never hear back from them or they do not turn in a first draft and then the area is abandoned.

We have 26 areas in which we never got a first draft.

This is how things currently happen:

Someone says they want to write an area.
We say ok, submit a proposal.
A few weeks go by and we have not received a proposal.
This happens a few times in succession.
Sometimes we do get a proposal.
A few months go by and eventually we get the rooms, mobs and objects emailed to us. Usually there is no problem with the writing and we approve them to go on at which time we ask them to send us an area map. A couple more months go by and we ask about the area status. Usually as this point people decide they do not have time to write the area after all. Wish is one notable exception.

Just the emailing back and forth takes a lot of time.

The next would probably be some of the requirements/review process. Will a few more issues/typos slip through the cracks and make it to the live mud? Sure. People will deal with them, just like they deal with current ones.

Tamar has already dropped a lot of the requirements for new areas.

The most recently installed area was the first draft. But Tamar spent approximately eight to ten hours editing it. She has about 45 minutes of free time a day so the editing took awhile. Sometimes she does other things with her 45 minutes besides work on areas. After that it was on the test mud and Kaleyah spent several hours going over it. I spent a few hours checking objects, mobs and resets. There is a list we go thru when checking a zone. This list was compiled as we learned from previous zones and what to check. Doing this beforehand saves much grief and time later on. This was an extremely well written area. Kaleyah did get several compliments on the area after it was installed.

Some restrictions (the one I currently love to hate is the "no two rooms the same" one) actually can go against what a person wants to convey with their zones, or sometimes, as is the case with certain parts of zones, who wants to spend extra HOURS just to try and think of different things to include in rooms that are, for all intents and purposes, the same? (IE a large banquet hall or something similar, an underground tunnel, who knows?)
It should not take HOURS to think of something that will make a room not identical to the next. It's as simple as saying:

A large tree is here. Grass grows to the west.

vs.

To the west, grass grows under a large tree.

While "good" areas can't be pumped out overnight, we could definitely have quite a few more areas to go in.
We are waiting on complete drafts of two more areas before the next steps toward installing the new continent can be made. (Writing all of the connects.)

It's also kind of discouraging when people (including us) spend a LOT of time working on areas only to be told they're not doing it fast enough or installing the kind of areas people really want.

[Tay]

I suggest find someone with time on their hands to help you guys with things like that, so it takes the load off and takes less time?

[jaerith]

I would LOVE to write an area. You give me a level range to deal with, and if need be a general theme(or I can figure that out) and I'll let Sirak's Muditor and my mild creativity pump out something.

[Tay]

i could never download it and get it to work properly, anyone else have troubles?

[Tynian]

I would LOVE to write an area. You give me a level range to deal with, and if need be a general theme(or I can figure that out) and I'll let Sirak's Muditor and my mild creativity pump out something.

Thanks for the offer! We'd love to have your help.

[Tynian]

i could never download it and get it to work properly, anyone else have troubles?

Your avatar is amusing. :)

What sort of problems were you having?

[Tynian]

1: get rid of the "god" gear that's floating around and lower the drop rate on dmg

In order to do this, we'd have to do something drastic. Do you suggest an equipment wipe or something a little more surgical?

2: see if it's possible to have an affect that very slightly increases one's spell dmg, so that Magic Resist gear becomes a little more useful(like DMG Vs. DA)

I like the idea of making non-damage affects more prominent.

Automize battle-royale type fights similar to the current spar system, where followings can compete against each other in a Mock-war situation.

I am ambivalent about this.

[Tay]

not sure which avatar you seen, but my current one is of my idol Tucker Max, www.tuckermax.com *


its been awhile since i tried the muditor, frankly i thought it never worked so i gave it up, i downloaded it once and it said it was missing certain things i believe.













*not sutiable for younger readers